My new Shapeoko 3 is it just me?

[Rocket]

Hello all,
What follows here is a copy of the "post" I just made on the Shapeoko Forum.

Okay, so I have had my new S3 for about two weeks, put it together the day that it arrived at my home.
Just a few facts about me (so everyone won't be so quick to jump on me). I own a Polaris Slingshot,
about four months ago I purchased a $5000 Turbo Charging Kit and installed it by myself, I had never
done any (I mean none) sort of auto or cycle mechanical work in my entire life (68 years).

Last year I build a 5000 pound pizza oven on my patio with no plans ( just looked at photos online and taught
myself along the way.
My Slingshot is very fast and I make great pizza.

The last three weeks I have spent at least 60 hours per week reading about cnc, shapeoko, gearotic, meshcam, bcnc, makercam,
and many many others. I have download tons of trial software.

All I want to do with this machine is make wooden gear clocks....I knew it would not be easy, but I had no idea of this.

I am not blaming anyone except myself. I normally get this stuff fairly fast, but not this time.
I make a gear in Gearotic, I post it and send it to Carbide Motion, 1/2 the time I cannot get the
end mill to start at the exact height of the material. I have tried tons of settings.

Other times it starts off okay, then in the middle the whole thing turns to shit.
I have tried to do a tool path in Meshcam, in the software everything looks perfect
then some other type of issue.

I have exchanged countless emails with Art Fenerty at Gearhead Forum. I have tried to
get help from the boys at Carbide 3, not much help there....except for Rob Grsesek.

I could go on and on for hours.....I am so frustrated because I cannot tell if it is ME or the Nature of the Beast.

HELP.....HELP.....HELP...........

rocket2004
   
    Posts: 17
    Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:22 pm

[ArtF]

Rocket:

  :),I hear your frustration, believe me, we've all been there.

  The problem is the books rarely explain much. Let me tell you what I see so far.

You've done well in your creation of your gear model . and in making a toolpath for it. But... something is wrong.

  Trust me on this, take a deep breath, drop the idea of making a gear till youve tested
and calibrated your knowledge of the shapeoko. To effectively make gears and such you will need to know
a bit of GCode. Not much, but a bit.

  First, you need to know the most important test on a  stepper driven table, the "Go To Zero" test.

In GCode, "g1 X10" means move axis X to 10 at current feedrate. F sets a feedrate. SO you need only two
lines to do a decent test.

G1X10F25
G1X0

  Those two lines move X to 10, then back. The "Go To zero" test is something you will do alot.
Go ahead , try it, run those two lines, and the question is, does it come back to where it started.
Make sure you zero the coordinates so it starts at zero in the X.

    Steppers cannot tell where they are, just where they were told to go, so if they stall
they cannot go back to position, they will go back short and to the wrong position. SO the best test
is to command a motion, then tell it to come back. Does it come back to Zero?

  Thats a question you will ask and answer often if you wish to run a stepper driven
system,..Did it come back to zero. With steppers, you should always come back to start
if you command a G0X0Y0Z0.

  It looks to me like your losing steps. This can be because your linakages to the motors are slipping
(Loose grub screws) or the motors are working too hard to turn. This can happen if you use too
large a bit too deep in the wood for example.  You need to do some basic checks before trying to
cut a gear.

  Try a square..

G1Z-.1
g1 X5
g1 Y5
g1 X0
g1 Y0
g0z1

  Try the above 6 lines , first zero .5" above the wood and run it, does it look like a square?
Then zero .1 above the wood and run it, does it just touch as it runs, still a square?
Then zero at top of wood, does it now cut a square .1" deep?

  Try those tests, if you tell us what they do, we can probably tell you fairly close to whats wrong..

Ive done customer support for over 20 years with hobby machines, Ive heard and seen almost
all of it, so I can tell you, your frustration will be in direct proportion to how much you try
to do without understanding what it "should" be doing. SO run the tests you understand,
learn the bit of Gcode you need to effectively test the machine. Basic G0/G1 motion
is all you need to fully understand, and run tests that are logical as above, post what happened
being as accurate as you can. Keep simple. Make a straight line cut, then return to zero.
Grow your complexity, that will stop the frustration function,

  F = I^2

  Frustration = Inexperience * Impatience ;

    Trying to jump ahead too far figuring "surely this is easy" will generally piss you off to the
point you'll want to give up. Cut a few lines, stop, consider, ask, repeat. Wont be long
till you fix it, fool it, or fuck it. So trust me, do some simple tests.. We'll get you there..

Art

[Rocket]

Thank you Art,

The Go to Zero test worked perfectly.

The square test would not run (code problem).

I am just guessing based on what you told me previously.

Try a square..

G1Z-.1
g1 X5
g1 Y5
g1 X0
g1 Y0
g0z1

Is it missing a feed rate?
Also would I have to enter a G20 code at the top?

RR

[ArtF]

Rocket:

  GCode is usually a state machine, it is like a bank of toggle switches. Each command sets a switch until its toggled again.
Usually, if there is no F word a default is there, but not always. Try adding an F word to the first line..

G1Z-.1F20
g1 X5
g1 Y5
g1 X0
g1 Y0
g0z1
   
      You may have found the crux of the problem, perhaps that machine needs GCode thats a bit out of the
ordinary. Once we find what works and what doesnt, it may make better sense. The problem is
likely that not enough people have ever seen one, so experience is low on how they work,
most machines have a few peccadilloes that are special to the unit. Once you know, then you deal
with it..

 

Ar

[Rocket]

You won't believe it, I changed the g code as shown below
and it cut a perfect 4 inch square...wow...........

G20/
g1z-7.05f50
g1 x5
g1 y5
g1 x0
g1 y0
g0z1

But, does this mean that all the other stuff
I have tried to make messes up, because my
Shapeoko 3 does not understand basic code like
all other cnc's????

That would really suck.........right????

[Rocket]

Art,

Is it possible that Carbide 3 does not know of this problem
with their machines?

They should be informed....yes or no...

Is it the Carbide Motion software or my machine that is causing this problem?

Richard

[ArtF]

>>I changed the g code as shown below
and it cut a perfect 4 inch square... wow...... .....

G20/
g1z-7.05f50
g1 x5
g1 y5
g1 x0
g1 y0
g0z1

      Im assuming the square was 5" on a side.? , and I assume you started way above
the material?

  The G1Z-7.5 would mean to drop Z by 7.5" , not something youd normally do.

Normally, you jog your machine to a start position ( like just above a start point and touching
the material) and then youd initiate a "Set Zero" which makes all DRO's show 0 at that spot.
   
  Why the G20/ Im not sure, usually no slash would be needed.

 
Ive looked at carbide software, looks like it doesnt show much what your doing,
so I can understand your being lost a bit. I suspect yours is an arduino based cutting
machine. It does sound as if there is some question as to its GCode usage. Do they
compile a list of what they can accept and what they cannot accept? Id expect
at a minimum that information should be available.
  If you can get a list from them on what they accept and what they dotn , you may be
more easily able to convert files to cut. You shouldnt need to add a slash after the G20,
but that may be just the same as reomving the G20 altogether as some formwares
will see a slash and take the entire line as a comment. It may just be you need
to always remove any G20 or G21 from the code..and make sure the code is properly
metric or imperial..



Art

[Richard Cullin]

the supported gcode is here , but the details are scanty,
http://carbide3d.com/docs/list-of-supported-gcodes/
the first upgrade may be to a pokeys controller ;D

g20/g21 are supported

[ArtF]

Yes, hard to imagine why adding a slash made it work, but as a controller , its pretty basic. Curious they didnt use Mach3 or LinuxCNC,
youd think they'd get a better end result. Hard to say whats in there for stepper drivers though, Id like to see the electronics, looks to me
like the stepper drivers may be awful weak for a cnc table. Hard to say though, I wont pick on it without seeing one.

  We'll see how Rocket makes out over time, but I downloaded and ran the software to see if I could help, but you cant even run it
without the machine. And when you do run it, it seems its one small dialog with Run/Pause/SetZero.. not much else..
  Going by that alone, if it were me Id rip the guts out of it.. :) ..

Edit:  I did find a picture of the electronics on the web. It does look like the electronics is more suited to a 3d printer than a wood machine,
so I think very light cuts may be the way to go. Its one of those integrated boards, so to retrofit would take a pokeys and 3 drivers,
as I dont think youd be able to use the board thats in it. 


Art

[Rocket]

Art,

Yes, the square was exactly 5 inches on each side.

I have sent a few stl and dxf files of gears from Gearotic to
the head engineer at Carbide 3, he says he will try them today,
we will see. My patience is running thin.

Are you saying I may need to upgrade my machine to do what
I want to do???

Please explain the upgrade process to me.....

Thanks, R

[Richard Cullin]

I had a look at some of the user videos that google up for a carbide search. they seem to cut ply at 20ipm with 60 thou cuts.  so it seems a gentle touch is required mind you the spindle variations are plentiful.
the basis of the platform is grbl  , and that works ok . there are carbide/shakepo forums worth a look too
I have used grbl variant marlin for a 3d printer virtually trouble free but for cnc work mach3 leaves it for dead

before updating have a look at the forums / youtube to pickup usage tips

[Rocket]

Art and Richard,

Well now, did I buy the wrong machine?

I spoke with Carbide 3 prior to my purchase and asked them
if the Shapeoko 3 would make wood gears for clock building,
they said yes, no problem.

I am not happy.

Please  tell me how I can upgrade this thing and how much it will cost?

I may try and return it, if they mislead me.

All along I thought i was really getting stupid and making tons
of mistakes...so I least now I know it was not just ME>>>>>

Thank you for all your help.....I need more help...

RR

[Rocket]

I had a look at some of the user videos that google up for a carbide search. they seem to cut ply at 20ipm with 60 thou cuts.  so it seems a gentle touch is required mind you the spindle variations are plentiful.
the basis of the platform is grbl  , and that works ok . there are carbide/shakepo forums worth a look too
I have used grbl variant marlin for a 3d printer virtually trouble free but for cnc work mach3 leaves it for dead

before updating have a look at the forums / youtube to pickup usage tips

I am not interested in 3d printing, I bought the unit to create wooden gear clocks...
Looks like I may have pissed away 1400 bucks.....shit...

[Rocket]

Art,

Do you feel I would be better of trying to upgrade this machine,
or start from scratch and purchase a different unit?

RR

[Richard Cullin]

the machine will probably do what you want , but first you need to learn how to get it to do what you want

you seem to have it moving ok in your 5" square , in the air
next step
try cutting  some ply in your square , just a shallow cut say 50 thou deep and go slow 20ipm
experiment with different speeds / depths and spindle rpm
get a feel for what sort of load the machine can tolorate