Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Files, photos and discusions on Tickers and kinetic devices.
Dan Mauch
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Dan Mauch »

Kineticrazy wrote: Dan,
   The friction reduction you've found, I'm trying to picture exactly where the friction occurs. Is it the pin passing over your plastic pawls that flows more smoothly?

I found that even the slightest drag of the spring rubbing against the flanges of the spools was one place.  The dogs slide better than the wooden ones and they are a bit heavier so the actuate better. It's been at least a year since I built it but at age 74 I am sure there were other reasons why the acrylic run better than the wood.
Dan Mauch
Kineticrazy
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Kineticrazy »

Thanks Dan,
    I'm questioning the use of bearings in my machine. I use skateboard bearings, shields removed, cleaned and lubricated...but they don't spin like the bearings I remember as a kid.The caged balls in skateboard bearings seem to slow them down. They don't "free wheel" but seem to have more friction than a sleeved hole and shaft would have. What sort of bearings have you been using? Your sculptures are beautiful and run well, I would love to know some of your methods...counter rotating wheels has got me a pulling out what little remaining hair I have left, and you seem to have them mastered. I would be overjoyed if you shed some light on their design.

74 is the new 50 !!

Thanks for your time,

Eric
Dan Mauch
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Dan Mauch »

Yesterday after looking at the side of my version of Zinna I then remembered that the pin that the storage spring spool  also had a slight drag which was another reason to make that spool also out of acrylic. I also installed bearing on the other spool. BTW I only wind my Zinna 18 turns and get about 15 minutes of run time with  stock spring Boyer recommends. I am using shielded bearings but I run them for a time before installing them. When I use to work on Submarines one of the jobs was to assemble the SV radar gearbox. After it was assembled I place thermometers on the cases where the bearing were and it was surprising. When I ran the gearbox in the shop the temperatures rose on the bearing housings but after about a 1/2 hour of running the bearing temps would drop to ambient. I never forgot that and thus always run my bearings either by a electric drill or some bearings I take out to the shop and use a compressed air nozzle with the bearing on an arbor and spin it up. You be surprised at how fast they run that way. Possibly 100000 RPM !!!!
Dan Mauch
John T
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by John T »

Hi Dan,
I was wondering if you ever used Glycerine for a lubricant?  Its about the slippyiest stuff I know if you get it on your hands but I have no idea if it would work on slow moving items such as a kinetic art piece.

John
1% inspiration 99% try, try again
Kineticrazy
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Kineticrazy »

Dan,
  That's a great idea to loosen up your bearings!! I've got a fresh box of bearings awaiting treatment.

Thanks for the tip,


Eric

P.S.  I've rung quite a bit of seawater out of my socks as well !!
Ya-Nvr-No
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Ya-Nvr-No »

Scares me!  :o
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glycerin.JPG
Dan Mauch
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Dan Mauch »

Here is a short video that I just made to demonstrate the difference between a non spun up bearing and one that is. Be careful if yoy try this as I would estimate the speed at 100K RPM  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW3Emgh ... e=youtu.be

Dan
Kineticrazy wrote: Dan,
   That's a great idea to loosen up your bearings!! I've got a fresh box of bearings awaiting treatment.

Thanks for the tip,


Eric

P.S.  I've rung quite a bit of seawater out of my socks as well !!
Kineticrazy
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Kineticrazy »

Dan,
    Thanks for taking the time to make the video. Good stuff.

Appreciated,

Eric
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ArtF
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by ArtF »

Thx Dan..great idea..

Art
Kineticrazy
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Kineticrazy »

Dan,
  I noticed the bearing in the video was still shielded. It was suggested in another thread to remove the shields, soak and clean the bearings with mineral spirits and then soak and lubricate them with silicone. Do you go through the same process?

I was wondering if anyone has tried thrust bearings. I happened upon them when poking around the internet...here's an example..

https://www.amazon.com/51100-Thrust-Bearing-10x24x9-Bearings/dp/B002BBJSDG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Thanks,

Eric
Last edited by Kineticrazy on Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dan Mauch
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Dan Mauch »

No i haven't removed the shield. At the time I did Zinna I had the shielded bearings and by running them with air I felt that was about as good as I can get. But I will keep your method in mind and later this week will remove a shield and see if I can make a quantitative improvement with bearing and no shield.

I have been using Torrington NTA-411 and TRA-411  (1/4" ID) thrust bearings and washers for years. My Horsing Around sculptures uses them on all the between the spring spool and the wooded backing. Anywhere there could be any drag between the rotating and stationary parts.

Dan Mauch
Kineticrazy wrote: Dan,
  I noticed the bearing in the video was still shielded. It was suggested in another thread to remove the shields, soak and clean the bearings with mineral spirits and then soak and lubricate them with silicone. Do you go through the same process?

I was wondering if anyone has tried thrust bearings. I happened upon them when poking around the internet...here's an example..

https://www.amazon.com/51100-Thrust-Bearing-10x24x9-Bearings/dp/B002BBJSDG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Thanks,

Eric
Kineticrazy
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Kineticrazy »

Dan,
  I'm learning a lot. I just studied up on thrust bearings a bit, there are lots of design options to eliminate friction. Have you found a supplier with a decent price? If you need more than 2 or 3  it's gonna get pricey quick.



Another great suggestion,

Thanks again,

Eric
Dan Mauch
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Dan Mauch »

Try http://www.vxb.com/

Dan Mauch
AndyUK
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by AndyUK »

Hi All,

I'd like to make a ticker based on Clayton Boyer's Zinnia - but I'd like to do it the hard way, so I'm avoiding the plans for now. I've got a few questions before I move forward:

Regards the spring that Mark so helpfully divulged the specification of, unfortunately the postage to the UK is quite expensive. I've been trying to find an alternative, but an exact duplicate is proving elusive. Could anyone suggest if this one is suitable? If not - can you see a suitable alternative from the seller?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813640339.html

Now, bearings. I've been thinking of using Needle Thrust Bearings. Would these below be suitable? I was thinking of using a precision 12mm main shaft as in commonly used as an inexpensive linear guide - it seems a lot of people us threaded rod, but that strikes me as a sub-obtimal choice, as the shaft not having a constant diameter can't be helping things.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AXK1226-Needle-Roller-Thrust-Bearing-thin-washer-bearing-with-2-AS-Washers/273885199745?hash=item3fc4d47d81:g:9GYAAOSw96Fco2hk

How critical is the design of the three wooden latches on the back of the output drum? My current thinking is that I just have to limit their motion to either engage well with the pin on the rear vane, or flick out the way completely. Why are they typically quite large?

Thanks!
Andy
Dan Mauch
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Dan Mauch »

I built my version of Zinna about 5 years ago . I cut my design out with a laser. As I recall I could not get the correct part from SDI becuase they were out and it would take several months before they had them. I did a search and found the supplier that makes them for SDI and here is what I found
spring width 3/8"
spring length 106"
torque 1.13Lb in
Attachments
zinna.JPG
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