Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Files, photos and discusions on Tickers and kinetic devices.
John T
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by John T »

Hi Dan,
I was wondering if you ever used Glycerine for a lubricant?  Its about the slippyiest stuff I know if you get it on your hands but I have no idea if it would work on slow moving items such as a kinetic art piece.

John
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Kineticrazy
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Kineticrazy »

Dan,
  That's a great idea to loosen up your bearings!! I've got a fresh box of bearings awaiting treatment.

Thanks for the tip,


Eric

P.S.  I've rung quite a bit of seawater out of my socks as well !!
Ya-Nvr-No
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Ya-Nvr-No »

Scares me!  :o
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glycerin.JPG
Dan Mauch
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Dan Mauch »

Here is a short video that I just made to demonstrate the difference between a non spun up bearing and one that is. Be careful if yoy try this as I would estimate the speed at 100K RPM  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW3Emgh ... e=youtu.be

Dan
Kineticrazy wrote: Dan,
   That's a great idea to loosen up your bearings!! I've got a fresh box of bearings awaiting treatment.

Thanks for the tip,


Eric

P.S.  I've rung quite a bit of seawater out of my socks as well !!
Kineticrazy
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Kineticrazy »

Dan,
    Thanks for taking the time to make the video. Good stuff.

Appreciated,

Eric
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ArtF
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by ArtF »

Thx Dan..great idea..

Art
Kineticrazy
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Kineticrazy »

Dan,
  I noticed the bearing in the video was still shielded. It was suggested in another thread to remove the shields, soak and clean the bearings with mineral spirits and then soak and lubricate them with silicone. Do you go through the same process?

I was wondering if anyone has tried thrust bearings. I happened upon them when poking around the internet...here's an example..

https://www.amazon.com/51100-Thrust-Bearing-10x24x9-Bearings/dp/B002BBJSDG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Thanks,

Eric
Last edited by Kineticrazy on Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dan Mauch
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Dan Mauch »

No i haven't removed the shield. At the time I did Zinna I had the shielded bearings and by running them with air I felt that was about as good as I can get. But I will keep your method in mind and later this week will remove a shield and see if I can make a quantitative improvement with bearing and no shield.

I have been using Torrington NTA-411 and TRA-411  (1/4" ID) thrust bearings and washers for years. My Horsing Around sculptures uses them on all the between the spring spool and the wooded backing. Anywhere there could be any drag between the rotating and stationary parts.

Dan Mauch
Kineticrazy wrote: Dan,
  I noticed the bearing in the video was still shielded. It was suggested in another thread to remove the shields, soak and clean the bearings with mineral spirits and then soak and lubricate them with silicone. Do you go through the same process?

I was wondering if anyone has tried thrust bearings. I happened upon them when poking around the internet...here's an example..

https://www.amazon.com/51100-Thrust-Bearing-10x24x9-Bearings/dp/B002BBJSDG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Thanks,

Eric
Kineticrazy
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Kineticrazy »

Dan,
  I'm learning a lot. I just studied up on thrust bearings a bit, there are lots of design options to eliminate friction. Have you found a supplier with a decent price? If you need more than 2 or 3  it's gonna get pricey quick.



Another great suggestion,

Thanks again,

Eric
Dan Mauch
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Dan Mauch »

Try http://www.vxb.com/

Dan Mauch
AndyUK
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by AndyUK »

Hi All,

I'd like to make a ticker based on Clayton Boyer's Zinnia - but I'd like to do it the hard way, so I'm avoiding the plans for now. I've got a few questions before I move forward:

Regards the spring that Mark so helpfully divulged the specification of, unfortunately the postage to the UK is quite expensive. I've been trying to find an alternative, but an exact duplicate is proving elusive. Could anyone suggest if this one is suitable? If not - can you see a suitable alternative from the seller?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813640339.html

Now, bearings. I've been thinking of using Needle Thrust Bearings. Would these below be suitable? I was thinking of using a precision 12mm main shaft as in commonly used as an inexpensive linear guide - it seems a lot of people us threaded rod, but that strikes me as a sub-obtimal choice, as the shaft not having a constant diameter can't be helping things.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AXK1226-Needle-Roller-Thrust-Bearing-thin-washer-bearing-with-2-AS-Washers/273885199745?hash=item3fc4d47d81:g:9GYAAOSw96Fco2hk

How critical is the design of the three wooden latches on the back of the output drum? My current thinking is that I just have to limit their motion to either engage well with the pin on the rear vane, or flick out the way completely. Why are they typically quite large?

Thanks!
Andy
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Dan Mauch »

I built my version of Zinna about 5 years ago . I cut my design out with a laser. As I recall I could not get the correct part from SDI becuase they were out and it would take several months before they had them. I did a search and found the supplier that makes them for SDI and here is what I found
spring width 3/8"
spring length 106"
torque 1.13Lb in
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Aviv
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by Aviv »

Kineticrazy wrote: Dan,
  I noticed the bearing in the video was still shielded. It was suggested in another thread to remove the shields, soak and clean the bearings with mineral spirits and then soak and lubricate them with silicone. Do you go through the same process?

I was wondering if anyone has tried thrust bearings. I happened upon them when poking around the internet...here's an example..

https://www.amazon.com/51100-Thrust-Bearing-10x24x9-Bearings/dp/B002BBJSDG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Thanks,

Eric
For kinetic sculptures, that are not experiencing high loads (I think?), would it be valuable to wash the bearings in mineral spirits, to remove the lubrication in order to reduce friction, without lubricating back?
I know the lubrication is there for a reason, but it also adds friction, and maybe for the weights involved in kinetic sculptures this isn?t an issue?
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ArtF
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by ArtF »

I'd agree with that, so long as it isn't wobbly.. the least resistance as possible is
desirable..
steve323
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Re: Kinetic sculpture designed by Clayton Boyer

Post by steve323 »

I have been testing various bearing configurations for pendulum supports. It is not exactly the same setup as a kinetic sculpture, but I believe some of the same principles apply. Less friction is better.

The load is around 8 ounces. I measure the time that it takes for the swing to degrade from +/-8 degrees to +/-1 degree.

Here are the swing times of various 623 (3x10x4mm) ball bearing configurations:
    5m 50s  sealed with factory grease intact
    7m 40s  shielded with factory grease intact
  14m 00s  shields removed and cleaned - low end of range
  20m 50s  shields removed and cleaned - high end of range
  24m 30s  shields removed and cleaned with Teflon dry lube added

The bearings were generic eBay versions costing around $5 for 10 bearings. 3 of the 10 were slightly tighter than the others. The remaining 7 would probably all last around 20 minutes or better.

My clock with ball bearings for the pendulum support has been running non-stop for two years with no signs of wear. Running then dry seems OK when the load is significantly lower than the rated max loads.

Steve
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